Can I be a voice of (mild) dissent? While I agree wholeheartedly that generosity of spirit should be the guiding principle in every interaction with friends and family, and that hospitality that comes with the expectation of a kickback is no hospitality at all, I also think that being conscious of and caring for your friends' financial anxieties is another form of love. I'm 41 with two young kids and while I wish (GOD HOW I WISH) I felt more financially secure than I did in my 20s, the reality is that things have only become...worse? (Sorry to the youth!) The stress of a HCOL city, salaries that aren't keeping up with inflation, political upheaval that threatens job security, insane costs of childcare - all of this means that my friends (my beautiful, kind, compassionate, engaged friends!) and I cannot be nearly as generous as we wish we could be with our money. Would I love to treat my friends to dinner? Absolutely! Would that then threaten my ability to pay for my kid's next hospital visit? Sure would! We are generous with our time, with our love, with our care. We slip goldfish and juice boxes into each other's kids hands, offer to walk a dog, to throw in a load of laundry, to have a kid over for a sleepover so the others can have some space to breathe. We listen and help and shower each other with flowers from our gardens and homemade cookies and while you're at it, here's that sweater that always looked better on you, anyway. And when we go out for dinner or buy groceries and gas for a weekend away, we always, always venmo. I don't think of it as miserly - I think of it as sanding down the edges of fear and anxiety. I think it's a form of generosity, too.
Totally hear you Meghan, I appreciate your perspective. The picture you paint of reciprocity among friends/family friends is exactly what I'm after - doing acts of service for the people you love (the dog walks, laundry, sleepovers, etc.) without keeping a ledger. Payment services, like Venmo, can certainly play a role in that kind of relationship, it isn't necessarily always so black and white.
This is so real. It is one of the great gifts that my circle of friends, mostly twenty-something, mostly in creative careers, rarely ever Venmos. I’ll just get the next one, when you come crash on my couch. It’s lovely.
Really liked this, Madison (as always!). Your piece reminded me of a guy that was in my exes' friend circle -- one time we all got together to go camping, and we all provided differently for the group: i bought some drinks, others brought groceries. At the campsite this guy asked us if we wanted to take a hit off of his joint, and I said sure -- I think i had one hit, but then went back to drinking and talking. The next day, while we were leaving the campsite, I got a notification from Venmo and looked down to see that the guy had requested $4 from me for smoking his joint. LOL. It just completely ruined the vibe. I get venmoing bigger purchases, or if you're in a financially precarious spot, but it is so completely antisocial to nickle and dime people for the smallest little moments of pleasure.
That is WILD wow. If that had happened to me it would have definitely been my opening anecdote. Slicing shared moments into expenses truly zaps away the romance!
interestingly, myself and my housemates are very much “i’ll get the next one” friends, who, since moving in together, have adapted to splitwise culture as a way to manage household expenses (bills, loo roll, washing up liquid etc.), which has inevitably leaked into our culture as a group of friends. granted, it’s very much ‘stick on on splitwise, pay it once it’s accumulated in a few months’, rather than penny-pinching a few quid the second it’s paid out. however, i found myself popping a cider onto splitwise that my housemate bought me as a reminder to myself to pay him back at some point. the insanity! reverse penny pinching? not wanting to seem rude, or forgetful, or like i’m being a leech?
“don’t worry mate, i remembered you got me that cider, i’m a generous person just like you, promise!”
i think there’s something to be said about the reverse action too, and the impact on the psychology of it overall. wanting to seem generous too, but not paying back in the informal medium, rather opting for the value as a way to show you remember their kind act.
it’s awful and i hate it and yet it feels like the practical thing to do… sometimes.
weirdly, i understand marriage a bit more nowadays than i used to. easier to manage finances when you’re an institution, i guess.
Although I was hesitant to agree, I do kind of feel myself becoming more amenable to this idea as I get into my mid-twenties. Like just rotating who brings food to a hangout at someone's apartment instead of doing venmo each time -- much easier. Once I have a full time job I would see myself operating more so this way.
In my early twenties I was friends/roomies with a girl who was a nickel and dime splitter and I have always been a "just get me next time" kind of person so it was a very odd mismatch when we'd go out or do stuff together. I could rely on her to pay me back for sure, but everything felt transactional.
What is the best way to split costs with a partner when you live together? I feel like this is something that isn’t super publicly spoken about and as someone who is (hopefully) entering that stage of life soon it would be helpful to hear from others !! (Mid twenties in New York, some money not a to )
for my partner and i, we used to split bills evenly in half when we had similar incomes, but began to split it proportionally when my partner's income got significantly larger than mine.
we contribute an equal amount to things like laundry, groceries, and our dog's daycare; dates we either split or one person pays, depending on who planned the date! hope this helps and good luck if you're entering that stage!!
This was such a great article and struck a chord for me so much, you have no idea! I could have given you so much content for this article ! Venmo culture is sad when it’s treated in a way that becomes a money grab rather than heartfelt connection with a friend or family member .
this is so real—i find the line of getting back to you, venmo culture, always always a fine line in the US. it seems although not always kids of immigrant parents and i always try to tip toe around it. In spanish there’s a saying “que pena” which quasi translates to how shameful—which is used when you’re being too individualistic or taking advantage of people—say accepting 20 dollars for sleeping over, or venmo requesting people. Great, great read!
Can I be a voice of (mild) dissent? While I agree wholeheartedly that generosity of spirit should be the guiding principle in every interaction with friends and family, and that hospitality that comes with the expectation of a kickback is no hospitality at all, I also think that being conscious of and caring for your friends' financial anxieties is another form of love. I'm 41 with two young kids and while I wish (GOD HOW I WISH) I felt more financially secure than I did in my 20s, the reality is that things have only become...worse? (Sorry to the youth!) The stress of a HCOL city, salaries that aren't keeping up with inflation, political upheaval that threatens job security, insane costs of childcare - all of this means that my friends (my beautiful, kind, compassionate, engaged friends!) and I cannot be nearly as generous as we wish we could be with our money. Would I love to treat my friends to dinner? Absolutely! Would that then threaten my ability to pay for my kid's next hospital visit? Sure would! We are generous with our time, with our love, with our care. We slip goldfish and juice boxes into each other's kids hands, offer to walk a dog, to throw in a load of laundry, to have a kid over for a sleepover so the others can have some space to breathe. We listen and help and shower each other with flowers from our gardens and homemade cookies and while you're at it, here's that sweater that always looked better on you, anyway. And when we go out for dinner or buy groceries and gas for a weekend away, we always, always venmo. I don't think of it as miserly - I think of it as sanding down the edges of fear and anxiety. I think it's a form of generosity, too.
Totally hear you Meghan, I appreciate your perspective. The picture you paint of reciprocity among friends/family friends is exactly what I'm after - doing acts of service for the people you love (the dog walks, laundry, sleepovers, etc.) without keeping a ledger. Payment services, like Venmo, can certainly play a role in that kind of relationship, it isn't necessarily always so black and white.
To be clear, I'd definitely feel differently if I too were child-free in my mid-30s making six figures!!! Dinner on me literally always!!!
This is so real. It is one of the great gifts that my circle of friends, mostly twenty-something, mostly in creative careers, rarely ever Venmos. I’ll just get the next one, when you come crash on my couch. It’s lovely.
Yes!! The art of “getting the next one” - that’s what we gotta get back to
yesss i have never felt close to someone who penny pinches about food; that's like an immediate friendship barrier for me
So true, and so beautiful.
Although I do find that sometimes letting guests help in the kitchen makes them feel more at home.
Really liked this, Madison (as always!). Your piece reminded me of a guy that was in my exes' friend circle -- one time we all got together to go camping, and we all provided differently for the group: i bought some drinks, others brought groceries. At the campsite this guy asked us if we wanted to take a hit off of his joint, and I said sure -- I think i had one hit, but then went back to drinking and talking. The next day, while we were leaving the campsite, I got a notification from Venmo and looked down to see that the guy had requested $4 from me for smoking his joint. LOL. It just completely ruined the vibe. I get venmoing bigger purchases, or if you're in a financially precarious spot, but it is so completely antisocial to nickle and dime people for the smallest little moments of pleasure.
That is WILD wow. If that had happened to me it would have definitely been my opening anecdote. Slicing shared moments into expenses truly zaps away the romance!
fantastic piece! i couldn’t agree more.
interestingly, myself and my housemates are very much “i’ll get the next one” friends, who, since moving in together, have adapted to splitwise culture as a way to manage household expenses (bills, loo roll, washing up liquid etc.), which has inevitably leaked into our culture as a group of friends. granted, it’s very much ‘stick on on splitwise, pay it once it’s accumulated in a few months’, rather than penny-pinching a few quid the second it’s paid out. however, i found myself popping a cider onto splitwise that my housemate bought me as a reminder to myself to pay him back at some point. the insanity! reverse penny pinching? not wanting to seem rude, or forgetful, or like i’m being a leech?
“don’t worry mate, i remembered you got me that cider, i’m a generous person just like you, promise!”
i think there’s something to be said about the reverse action too, and the impact on the psychology of it overall. wanting to seem generous too, but not paying back in the informal medium, rather opting for the value as a way to show you remember their kind act.
it’s awful and i hate it and yet it feels like the practical thing to do… sometimes.
weirdly, i understand marriage a bit more nowadays than i used to. easier to manage finances when you’re an institution, i guess.
great piece. many things to think about.
Although I was hesitant to agree, I do kind of feel myself becoming more amenable to this idea as I get into my mid-twenties. Like just rotating who brings food to a hangout at someone's apartment instead of doing venmo each time -- much easier. Once I have a full time job I would see myself operating more so this way.
In my early twenties I was friends/roomies with a girl who was a nickel and dime splitter and I have always been a "just get me next time" kind of person so it was a very odd mismatch when we'd go out or do stuff together. I could rely on her to pay me back for sure, but everything felt transactional.
What is the best way to split costs with a partner when you live together? I feel like this is something that isn’t super publicly spoken about and as someone who is (hopefully) entering that stage of life soon it would be helpful to hear from others !! (Mid twenties in New York, some money not a to )
for my partner and i, we used to split bills evenly in half when we had similar incomes, but began to split it proportionally when my partner's income got significantly larger than mine.
we contribute an equal amount to things like laundry, groceries, and our dog's daycare; dates we either split or one person pays, depending on who planned the date! hope this helps and good luck if you're entering that stage!!
Thank you!
fabulous!!!!
🫶🫶
This was such a great article and struck a chord for me so much, you have no idea! I could have given you so much content for this article ! Venmo culture is sad when it’s treated in a way that becomes a money grab rather than heartfelt connection with a friend or family member .
Hopefully we’ll see a backlash against fintech like the one against social media that seems to be finally boiling over.
Dear Madison, what a lovely column. I really enjoyed reading it. Thank you.
this is so real—i find the line of getting back to you, venmo culture, always always a fine line in the US. it seems although not always kids of immigrant parents and i always try to tip toe around it. In spanish there’s a saying “que pena” which quasi translates to how shameful—which is used when you’re being too individualistic or taking advantage of people—say accepting 20 dollars for sleeping over, or venmo requesting people. Great, great read!